PhotographyToday.net

Discussions, Community, Learning

Back to business with film.

Questions and answers about developing film, enlarging and making your own prints. Also, topics on scanning your negatives, transparencies and photos.
alexvaras
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Back to business with film.

Postby alexvaras » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:14 am

Hi all,

It has been more than 25 years since I did my last full process in a darkroom, I want to develop and scan 4x5, 120mm and 135mm film.
Preferred films Ilford Delta 100, sometimes Acros 100 and I need to shoot Ilford Delta 3200 for metro and kids concert.

What I have so far:
AP tank for one 120mm film and for two 135mm films.
SPP-445 for 4x5 (up to 4 sheets), inversion mode. I liked the reviews and I found someone here selling it new.
D-76 1 ltr.
Fixer 1 ltr.
Stop.
Wet agent.
Termometer.
Tweezers for drying negatives, but I dont know how to do the 4x5 film with them, not enough to clamp without marking the film, metal binder clips??
Scan 4990, ANR glass (I need to do holders after test).

Write down what else do I miss at this point that Im not aware.

How-to-do:
Put the film from the holder or film roll into the tank using the dark-changing bag, its big enough.
Pre-Soak? I could buy distilled water or use the water coming from the filter installed at home.
Develop: I read a lot of recipes and I took D-76, what I want is few grain so please drop here your own timings and processes.
Stop: With just simple water or adding some drops from stop liquid or vinegar?
Fix: Fix as usual as described in the fixer bottle.
Wash: In current water running 5 min? or 15 min in the tank?
Wet agent: I remember I was doing this with the 15 min washing in the sink, but if using running water I should add how many minutes of wet agent?
Dry with what ever I have near.

At the moment it's all I can remember, I plan to shoot and test-develop-scan this weekend.

Thank you for all you help and tips,
Alex
0 

Brazile
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:22 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby Brazile » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:06 am

Alex,

Your plan should work fine.

Some pre-soak, many don't. I have done both, generally have not found it to matter, although I confess to a certain appreciation for seeing the anti-halation dye pour out with the pre-soak water before it ever gets in the developer. No reason to think that matters, really, I just find it vaguely satisfying. The arguments for pre-soak: slows down the take up of developer, so reduces the risk of surge marks, etc., as the developer hits the film, acclimates the film to the temperature of the chemicals. Main argument against: may cause unevenness of take up of the developer. Never found it conclusively to matter myself, so do it if you like.

Water is important. Excessively hard or soft water can affect the outcome, primarily the former. Mine is fine, so I don't worry about it much. Doesn't hurt to start with distilled to have a basis for comparison.

D-76 is my standard developer, although I have been intending to experiment with pyro for alternative printing processes one of these days. I use it one-shot in the 1:1 dilution, as I find that economical and the results pleasing. Just be sure to use enough developer to meet the minimum requirement, which is about 2oz (60ml) per 4x5 sheet. In an SP-445 (I have one also, I use it sometimes, trays sometimes, a rotary machine sometimes, depending on how many sheets I'm doing) you need 16oz of fluid, and as four sheets require 4x2oz=8oz of developer (+ the 8oz of water), it all works out perfectly. Sorry for the US measures, just simpler to talk about in this case.

How long to develop depends on the film type and whether you're dealing with contrast adjustments for some reason (intentional under- or over-exposure). For black and white, I don't see a lot of point outside a stop or two away from normal. But it's a place to exert control once you've mastered the process. You can get a safe starting point for dev time from the data sheet for the film you're using, or you can Google the "Massive Dev Chart" to get a crowdsourced idea of dev times for various alternative dilutions. There's also a phone app that has the latter built into it. For plates, I find that D-76 1:1 for about 12 minutes (+/-, depending on the exposure) works well, but as you can develop by inspection, I'd work on learning that rather than fretting about exact times. Paper negatives are another story, as paper generally develops more quickly. Again, you can develop by inspection there, so I would.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I use a water stop with TF-4. Acid stops are a bit more certain, but it's never been an issue for me. Mostly just stops developer carryover to the fix, which is not something that concerns me a lot. When I started, I used Kodak stop (basically acetic acid) and Kodafix, and that worked, too, although the stop was a bit more stinky. Which fix did you buy?

Washing: I recommend the Ilford method because it saves water. It's easy enough to Google, so I won't belabor it here. Failing that, if your water is cheap and plentiful, running at a slow steady rate (what matters is number of full changes of bath over time, because the hypo leaches into the water at a slow steady rate) for about 10 minutes is normally considered best.

I don't tend to bother much with wetting agent. Sometimes I get spots as a result, usually I don't. If I have something important, I might bother, I do have some PhotoFlo around. Some people use a small drop of dish soap in water. I've never tried that, no idea how effective it is (or isn't).

Hang to dry, ideally in a non-dusty place. Assuming you use your bathroom, as suggested, just run the shower for a few minutes before you start the development process. This will help lower the dust in the room. I have a spare bath curtain rod on which I hang a stainless steel clothes drying rack intended for socks and small things, so it has lots of clips on it, works well for hanging film. Plates I put in a plate rack to dry. I bought one, then built several others, can show an example if that's helpful.

Don't over think it, just jump in and try it, it's simple enough. You can always tweak things later.

Robert

P.S. Edited for clarity: when I talk about "developing by inspection" of course I mean developing in trays with a safelight that allows you to watch the development. I use plastic trays I bought from an online food supply place; 8x10 trays for 4x5, 11x14 trays for 8x10, etc.
0 

User avatar
GrahamS
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:49 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby GrahamS » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:42 am

Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 12.43.47.png
Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 12.43.47.png (35.76 KiB) Viewed 997 times
0 
GrahamS
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” Mark Twain

User avatar
GrahamS
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:49 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby GrahamS » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:50 am

This may be useful: http://bit.ly/2DEux20
0 
GrahamS
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” Mark Twain

User avatar
GrahamS
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:49 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby GrahamS » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:51 am

Alex, CONSISTENCY is your friend. Never vary/change more than one thing at a time.
0 
GrahamS
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” Mark Twain

alexvaras
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby alexvaras » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:12 am

Robert, thank you.
I can manages oz and inches :)
I will order some distilled water, the iron of my wife will take it as well.
At home I will write which stop and fixer I got.
Ilford method works for me, I can add the wet agent as final rinse.

Graham, thanks for the web, consistency is not strong on me but I know that's the only way to go further.

Still Thursday two days to go.
0 

Brazile
Enthusiast
Enthusiast
Posts: 344
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:22 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby Brazile » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:47 am

Just for clarity's sake: Graham's link is to the "Massive Dev Chart" I mentioned earlier; they are the same. Provides useful starting points, although knock-down drag-out fights (cf. Mac vs PC, Nikon vs Canon, vi vs emacs, etc.) happen all the time about some of its entries, so just be aware of that. I generally find that it works pretty well. Graham's point about consistency is right, though: pick a thing and stay with it for a while, whether developer, stop, or fix, etc. They can pretty much all be made to work, and you'll have a much easier time debugging strange results if you're not varying multiple elements of your process at once.

Robert
0 

alexvaras
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby alexvaras » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:06 pm

Yes I will start with the number said in this tables and from there if everything is fine some variations, the thing I'm afraid is agitation, 30 seconds inversions and then 1 inversion every minute? In case of SP-445, with the AP tank I have this things to make it spin, or better inversions?
The fixer is local made, it's written is sour and it's said it's valid for both paper and film, should I trust it or better get a known brand? It's not written concentration (proportion quantity to water) so my guess it's one use.
About the stop, I found a opened (5 years ago) of Fomacitro, should I trash it?
No ANR glass until Monday so the scans could be far from good, I read a HowToScan pretty good in french that I liked.
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Laboratoire/scanner.html

Alex
0 

Julio1fer
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 873
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby Julio1fer » Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:59 pm

Good start Alex! there is so much good advice above that there is little to add. And you have done this before.

Inversiones - just be consistent. I do a full first minute, then two inversions on each minute mark. There is too much unproven folklore about agitation IMHO.

Do take care of temperature, if needed correct development time according to the temperature. I do not use stop baths, just water (three tankfuls, 30 seconds continuous agitation each). No need to presoak.

As a trick, after fixing I wash with two tankfuls of water, and then add a 20 g/L sulfite solution, agitate two minutes, discard and then do the Ilford wash. The sulfite takes out the hypo completely.

If you have access to a chemist's and can weigh gram quantities, you might want to try Beutler developer just because it is so practical. Should be a perfect developer for your T-grain films; I can certify this for TMax. Also, it is very easy to mix your own fixer from hypo and sulfite.
0 

User avatar
GrahamS
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:49 am

Re: Back to business with film.

Postby GrahamS » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:08 am

alexvaras wrote:Yes I will start with the number said in this tables and from there if everything is fine some variations, the thing I'm afraid is agitation, 30 seconds inversions and then 1 inversion every minute? In case of SP-445, with the AP tank I have this things to make it spin, or better inversions?
The fixer is local made, it's written is sour and it's said it's valid for both paper and film, should I trust it or better get a known brand? It's not written concentration (proportion quantity to water) so my guess it's one use.
About the stop, I found a opened (5 years ago) of Fomacitro, should I trash it?
No ANR glass until Monday so the scans could be far from good, I read a HowToScan pretty good in french that I liked.
http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Laboratoire/scanner.html

Alex


Alex, use inversion agitation, never rotational. Rotating the spiral can result in what is called "directional streaking." "30 seconds inversions and then 1 inversion every minute?" is correct. Use a branded fixer if available, such as Ilfofix, which also contains a hardener. This will make drying much easier and you won't get as much dust sticking to the wet emulsion. It will also be more resistant to scratching. For stop bath, you can use a couple of drops of acetic acid in 500ml water - you can get it at any pharmacy or cake icing shop. D76 is good as a fine grain developer but you will get more consistent results using HC-110 dilution B as a one shot developer. Using D76 as a one shot is very wasteful, and unless you re-use it by compensating the development time for each subsequent use or you mix up a replenisher you will use up a lot of solution. I buy my supplies here (They will ship to you): https://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/
0 
GrahamS
“It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.” Mark Twain


Social Media

       

Return to “Developing, Enlarging and Scanning”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

 

 

Login  •  Register